Look at his hands, look at her balance. She’s not daintily placing her foot in the air, she is off-kilter. The placement of his legs and the force he is exerting on her is pulling her off of her feet. Look at his hand on her waist. He’s forcing her hips into that position. Look at her head in the crook of his elbow, he has entire control over the position of her head. Look at the way they kiss, look at his closed fist. This wasn’t a gentle advance with an opportunity for dissent (or consent), this was a woman ripped off of her feet and molested. This is rape culture.
Man, shut the fuck up.
Come on, he probably hasn’t seen her for months and really missed her and doesn’t want to let go. Plus public kissing back then? This was pretty scandalous….
Actually he didn’t know her at all. He was on a date with someone else when he grabbed her & kissed her.
Not only was the sailor there with his future wife, the nurse (actually dental assistant) was not happy to be kissed.
In Greta’s words: “And then I was grabbed. That man was very strong. I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.”
So it is now well known that this was a kiss forced upon a woman against her will by a drunk man. But the picture is still held up as an beautiful example of romantic love and defended by those who say it was a different time or that it was the least the woman could do for a returning war hero.
This is rape culture.
Okay, yeah, he didn’t get her permission. He had a girlfriend. They didn’t know each other.
But you know what? I almost understand. He was so charged and full of energy, he just came home from a world war and he was alive. Alive with the thousands of others who were there filled with joy and disbelief.
And here was this woman. This slender, beautiful woman in a nurse’s uniform. That uniform is what got her that kiss. He saw her, and his initial thought was that she was a nurse (although she was actually a dental assistant), that she was one of the amazing women who had saved countless lives throughout the course of this time. So he grabbed her and kissed her, an outlet for his energy and appreciation for what he believed she had done. She was defensive at first, obviously not knowing this man and having her right arm unintentionally pinned to her side. But for a little while, she relaxed in his arms and enjoyed that moment. The boys were back home, and the world was in order again. She rushed back to work and said the war was over, the kiss being the last thing on her mind. Years later Greta and George identified themselves as being the photographed kissers, Greta even ousting a girl who previously claimed to be in the picture. I don’t see any shame there. I don’t see any remorse or ill thoughts. I see pride. I see a memory that will literally last forever.
So you can shout “rape culture” all you want. But I wouldn’t shout it to the two people you’re actually talking about, that’s for sure.
Have you ever been grabbed by someone stronger than you are, who is drunk (fuck being alive because he was DRUNK) and then being manhandled and forced to kiss them? Because I have and it’s not fun. Whether or not she became more passive during it isn’t the point, there is NEVER a good enough reason to grope someone and force any sexual act on them.
Wow that’s so cute and charming that a man forcefully grabbed a woman because he felt alive! It’s great! I should make sure I let random men on the street know “hey I may be looking angry and sullen but if you’re feeling in the mood to kiss me COME HERE AND PLANT ONE ON ME BOYS! IF YOU’RE FULL OF LIFE, MY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS DON’T MATTER!” She was defensive at first, but later relaxed? WOW that’s fucking CREEPY. That is how a fucking RAPIST thinks! “oh sure she didn’t like it at first but eventually she got into it so it’s all okay”
“her arm unintentionally pinned to her side” yeah i’m sure her allowing it to happen, in the middle of the street surrounded by servicemen had nothing to do with the fact that she may have felt helpless and scared! But who cares about her feelings when he felt full of energy! After all, she’s just an outlet for his energy, right?
Your writing is shitty and your thoughts disgust me.
How about we just not speak for someone else?
She speaks of the moment as a fond memory. She doesn’t speak of the moment as an “omg i can’t believe he did that” but as an “it wasn’t dainty, and I didn’t participate. it was him kissing me in a firm motion” from what I’ve read of it. It sounds like she understood how he felt and why he did it, and while not incredibly thrilled, she wasn’t pissed about it happening. She just didn’t really care. From the article “Back then, it was just one of those things: “Obviously, to do that today — it’s not such a good idea,” says Lawrence Verria, co-author of “The Kissing Sailor.” “But in Times Square, 1945, they hear the war’s over — it’s not such a bad idea.””
And frankly, if she doesn’t have an issue with what happened, you have NO right to say anything about it. SHE, the one it happened to, did not feel she was violated. Therefore, you have no right to make her a victim, because only she has that right.
I guess I’m just confused why you’re defending the idea that a man can go up to a woman on the street and do what he wants to her and as long as she’s not very perturbed it’s apparently okay because the image is cute?
Also dude, reading comprehension. Does Lawrence sound like a girl’s name? No. That was the co-author of the book, offering commentary. Which I guess people aren’t allowed to do, in your book.
Here is commentary (oh god no!) that her husband offered, however:
According to Verria, Greta’s husband said, “You know, when you get very tense, your arm stiffens up and your thumb sticks out just like that.”
An actual quote by her, cited above, was that he was strong, he grabbed her, and it was a one-sided kiss.
Why are you defending rape culture?
I specifically stated it was FROM THE ARTICLE, not from her. But in all the times I’ve read of her talking about it, she has never once mentioned the kiss bothered her at ALL, on ANY level. Just that it happened, and it was him kissing her. She has always talked about it fondly, like “hey, that’s a good moment.” not” omg that man forced himself on me.” Therefore, if she isn’t bothered by it, no one has the right to make her a victim. By doing so, you are robbing her of her right to decide what’s ok for herself.
And yes, when you get tense your thumbs do stick out. You know a reason why you get tense? surprise. It’s entirely possible her tenseness in this photo is from being surprised from the kiss. Not being afraid like everyone assumes. I think she’d mention the whole being afraid part during the multiple interviews she gave.
And I am in NO way defending rape culture, so don’t you go suggesting that i am, because that’s slanderous. I am defending a single, particular moment in time that people are attacking when the female in question has no issue with what happened. I got tense when I was going to kiss my girlfriend of 4 months, because I get nervous easily. Being tense does NOT=against what’s happening. It’s a sign of nerves, which are common when you are surprised by something.
If you go back pretty much any time past the 70s, all you’re going to see is things like this, because in that time, it was OK in that time period’s culture. You’re splitting hairs over things in the past that can’t be altered from back then. We can’t suddenly make rape culture in the 70s go away. But it is, very very slowly, starting to go away in the MODERN era. Times are different now. A soldier would be at the very least punished by his branch for an act like this, if not arrested.
There is a large difference between defending rape culture, which would be me saying “hey a man can do this if a war just ended today.” and me saying “hey, the woman who went through this experience has never said she was bothered by it, nor does she talk of it like it was a bad thing, so leave it alone.” The first statement DOES defend rape culture, and I don’t feel there is ANY circumstance where ANYONE, even a woman, should be allowed to force themself on another person. the second is defending the person who it happened to, and their choice to say and feel that there wasn’t anything wrong or that big of a deal about what happened.
auugh why though
that arguement is so dumb
‘it was worse back then so we can’t be mad’
no it still sucked people still got raped and died and lived lives they didn’t enjoy
what are we not supposed to care about things if they happened in the past?
Also, fucking okay with who? Who was okay with rape culture? Straight men? Yeah, I’m sure they were! Dude sometimes you need to take back and realize this is not about you. It does not matter if you get nervous when you go to kiss your girlfriend, that is not the same at fucking all as being nervous when a strange man on the street grabs you and kisses you against your will. Please think how fucking ludicrous that sounds to a woman. That kind of tenseness is not at all the same as being tense because a stranger who is stronger than you grabbed you. Not everything is about you.
And yes I will continue to assert that you are defending that it’s rape culture (it’s libel if it’s written) because that is what you are doing. You are saying because the woman didn’t scream and throw a fit it was okay for a man to do whatever. You are saying that because it was “normal for the time” it was okay for him to mistreat a woman. You are saying that because she didn’t put up a fight it was okay? Because she didn’t have some sort of emotional breakdown? Dude have you ever heard of the term microaggressions. I get catcalled all the fucking time when I’m walking around. I so far haven’t started crying in the street and telling everyone every time how traumatic it is. Does that make it not part of rape culture?
please, provide me with a quote where she seemed happy about it.
I just like, again, why are you defending this? Why is it important to you that we know that it’s okay for this man to have grabbed a woman? You know what? Even if she fucking liked it, it was rape culture. Because there was no way for him to have known that. He didn’t know her, he didn’t know if that experience would fill her with sheer terror. But because he was a man who was exuberant, he thought it was okay. And you are defending that.
like why is it important that I leave it alone? why are you upset that i’m saying “hey it’s problematic that our culture romanticizes this image” do you like have a tattoo of it on your torso what is your personal stake in this
Also nowhere do I see a quote from her saying that it specifically didn’t bother her. She hasn’t appeared to be “pissed” about it but maybe she had her reasons for not saying how she truly felt. You’re saying yourself “well it was just like that back then!” - don’t you think maybe she’d be scared as fuck to come out and say “Yeah I was terrified” FOR that reason? And because everyone thinks it’s so damn cute that there’s this huge clusterfuck of an argument going on right now based on speculation. I can guarantee you people would try to argue that her feelings were wrong even if she HAD said that she was super mega pissed. (P.S. it wasn’t just “back then” that this was an issue, which is why this argument is happening)
Sidenote: if the people pointing out that this is rape culture are making her into a victim… what are you doing by insisting that she wasn’t offended??? No. We’re pointing out that it’s not cool to just drunkenly kiss strangers? You, likewise, have no right to take away the fact that she might have been scared out of her fucking mind. Just because she hasn’t said anything indicating that she sees herself as a “victim” does not mean it wasn’t upsetting - or, more importantly, that you get to decide that it wasn’t upsetting. This is rape culture because it would be upsetting to a LOT OF PEOPLE so don’t fucking do it, like, in general?
I think it’s good for people to know the actual story behind this picture. Photojournalism is for documentation, not propagating your weird idea of romance. That’s what photomanipulation is for. That is what ART is for. If you want that, go get photoshop and a camera and make your own shit.
tl;dr how about nobody from either side tell anyone how they did or did not feel at any given point in history and we all just agree that walking up to strangers and fucking macking on them for no reason is not cool regardless of how cute it looks???
Okay, it was fucking ages ago. You cannot bring that into our culture now and pretend it’s present. How bout we not fucking assume people’s thoughts, wants, and desires?
Also, thought I’d add that being on a date with someone doesn’t make them your future wife. If you think it does, you’re fucking nuts and I hope you don’t date often, because you’d scare all of them off.
But back to the picture. It’s just that: a goddamn pitcure.
How about we shut the fuck up about it, and move the fuck on with our lives. Too many things are happening right now in our own fucking time for you silly little shits to continue on about a goddamn picture from years in the past. Everyone shut the fuck up and get the fuck back into your own fucking time.
The photo itself was a representation of the excitement, the energy, and everything else after the war. A guy was so happy, he’d kiss a complete stranger. That’s all it was meant to show. Fucking quit being cunts about it and move on with your lives.
No that’s how the image was interpreted. But he was on a date with his future wife & he left her standing alone to grab this woman (a complete stranger), force himself on her & then walked away. How happy he was isn’t the point, the point is how he fucked up her day with his behavior. Newsflash you sack of shit, she’s a person & has expressed pretty clearly that she is not happy about what happened in this pic. Why are people so damned determined to pretend this shit is romantic? She slapped him right after he kissed her & then got away from him as fast as she could. She’s scared in this pic & that matters more than his rapey joy.
Wow. I would’ve never thought of this picture in that way. But it’s so clear when you actually take the time to look at the picture instead of just passing it off as a “classic.” And it’s kinda creepy how everyone is standing there, watching and smiling. Wouldn’t they have noticed the power dynamic b/w the two, and if the girl was struggling, etc.? Whatever this woman felt on that day, it’s never okay for a man to force anything on a woman.
(Source: esotericalesbians)
